Whatever Happened to the Alternative Music Scene?
Little Bastard asks where all the alternative clubs have gone. Where can the Soho gay crowd who don’t want to listen to music that’s had its very soul remixed out of it go now?
Being gay and not “conventional” is hard. It’s always struck me as odd that a subculture that is based on non-conformity could be so … well … conformist.
When wandering the streets of Soho any night of the week you can usually expect to hear the latest charts hits pulsating in many bars and clubs in the area, along with the odd piece of house music. Pop music and gay culture have long gone hand-in-hand, and I can understand why so many gay men and women find comfort in the frivolous and joyful nature of pop music as an antidote to their own sorrows or the drudgery of everyday life.
However, some of us dance to the beat of a different drum. I love Girls Aloud like the next gay, but so much of my music taste comes from the anger and angst I experience in my every day life, and the desire to express my individuality. I don’t always find this in mainstream pop music and culture.
I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with pop music – anyone that has read my reviews will have noted I’ve got a taste in music wider than Mr Creosote’s waistband – but that doesn’t mean that every time I go out I want to listen to ‘Single Ladies’ and ‘Call Me Maybe’.
Months ago, I started writing an article about my journey to a provincial gay club and the hideous ear-rape I was subjected to during my time there. My main problem with the club in question – Plush in Oxford, if anyone is interested – was the DJ’s taste for that awful brand of “house” music that has become so popular in modern gay clubs, where a poor unsuspecting pop song is mutilated on an Amiga 500: only the vocals remain and the whole thing is given the same looped house beat until each song melts into the other, for lazy mixing.
I heard nothing but this shit for hours, until we were rescued from remix hell by Lady Gaga’s ‘Judas’ (and ironically I would have played a remix of that!). It made me think seriously about clubs I’d been to in the past 13 years, both straight and gay, and whether I’d ever experienced this type of music anywhere else.
And so I researched Almighty, the record label who had coined this strange brand of house music in the ‘90s, starting out remixing ABBA songs for the gay dance floor. I wondered if you’d ever be subjected to such tripe anywhere else – if, for instance, you’d go to Tiger Tiger on a Saturday night (surely the straight equivalent of G.A.Y?) and hear Bimbo Jones remixing all the angst out of P!nk, or the Freemasons stripping the hell out of Beyonce. In my many years frequenting both straight and gay venues, I had never come across these nasty types of remixes anywhere else. It feels like people such as Bimbo Jones and Tracy Young are remixing things purely for the pink earphones of gay DJs.
I couldn’t find a focus for my musings on the subject, and wondered if anyone would actually be bothered enough to read a rant about gay culture and music, as even that night at Plush I seemed to be in the minority. Then, I saw this status update from Gay Rock night Stampede on Facebook:
“Hello my sexy bunch of clubbers tonight is return of stampede with DJ’s Laurence Rene and Alex Bandagos Brown playing the freshest pop, dance and R&B around … With amazing drink deals on the night …. Peace love and sausage rolls
”.
I was dumbfounded, and without thinking typed a comment as quickly as I could, questioning their music policy. When the night had started, it was a gay rock night – something we all would have seen as a risk in Soho, never mind at dingy (but not in a good way) bar Escape!!. With a resident DJ from a prominent Metal band its seemed to have enough rock credentials to be the Next Big Thing. The response I got to my question about their sudden shift into chart fodder? That “Soho wants what it wants”.
Once upon a time – well about ten years ago – London was almost awash with polysexual alternative nights. Underground club Ghetto – ironically underneath The Astoria, home for many years to the G.A.Y I so despised – was my personal favourite. Nights ranging from trailblazing electro clash club Nag Nag Nag, metal night Red Eye, alternative club night Noise one of the first clubs to have weekly live bands, lesbian Indie night Misshapes and pop trash Wig Out, drew a slightly different crowd, from the skater to the fashionista, but it was all brought to you with a dose of downtown New York unpretentiousness, and no one was ever made to feel under or over dressed. It was the sort of club where you’d catch Peaches hanging out by the DJ booth, or Simon Amstel tearing up the dance floor.
Its sister bar, Trash Palace, with its Twin Peaks inspired Red Room, was a similar haven for the strange and unusual, hosting Glam Rock, Indie, and easily the best R’n'B gay night I’ve ever been to.
After the tragic death of owner Simon Hobart, Ghetto carried on as normal, but seemed to lose direction somewhat. When it was forced out of central London by the Crossrail bulldozers demolishing the Astoria and everything around it (including my favourite chip shop) it migrated East, taking Trash Palace with it, and became just another weird East London club. Its doorstep appeal of Soho gone, it crashed headlong into a sea of multisexual and electronic freak clubs. Ghetto became a small fish in a very big elitist pond and finally closed its doors.
Over the years, Ghetto had managed to commercially eclipse most of the competition, nights like Marvellous and the brilliant Rebel Rebel. So when it crashed and burned there was nothing different left. Simon Hobart’s long standing Friday night Indie rave Popstarz had moved from the delightfully dirty Scala in Kings Cross and had pitched its tent at Sin in Tottenham Court Road. But it had changed from being something interesting and alternative to G-A-Y Bar with Kings Of Leon.
Although Popstarz is still going, despite having several homes over the years, it’s not the same as it once was, and is now full of the dregs of pop lovers from Soho’s bars. You’re more likely to get smacked in the face by somebody emulating Beyonce’s ‘Single Ladies’ dance than you are to injure yourself moshing in the mostly empty Indie room.
For years I’ve been trying to start a club night. Not somewhere to replace Ghetto – that can never be done – but to act as a haven for the people that went there, and an entire generation of gay people who don’t want to be defined solely by their sexuality, that want to hear a wide range of music, not just the same thing they could hear everywhere else.
What I discovered is that many bars and clubs aren’t willing to take a risk on an alternative night. There are, apparently, not enough gay people that want to go to “alternative” bars (which amazes me when, over the past few years rock and alternative music has been more popular than ever) to warrant starting a night dedicated to that sort of music. Quite where all the people that used to frequent Ghetto and Trash Palace and the like have gone baffles me, but there apparently simply isn’t the “call for it” anymore. When London is the most diverse city in England (or should be) it amazes me that there is no longer an alternative gay scene, especially with the success of regular nights Bollox in Manchester and Psychodrama in Bristol. Surely if smaller cities have successful, well-marketed alternative nights, a city like London should have a place for it too?
I am sexually and romantically attracted to men, which identifies me as gay in today’s society. This doesn’t, however, mean that I want to wear a feather boa, cover myself in glitter and dance to Kylie on a regular basis. I do not think Kylie was at her artistic best when dressed in gold hot pants, and I do think that Lady Gaga was more interesting before ‘Born This Way’. I don’t really like Beyonce, but I do know that the Freemasons only made ‘Green Light’ and ‘Ring The Alarm’ worse. I like Madonna the artist, not Madonna the gay icon. I think that Marilyn Manson is one of the greatest artists of the past 20 years, and Slayer is one of the best bands I have ever seen live in my entire life.
I’m not one of these people who wears my alternative taste like a badge, just as I don’t with my homosexuality. I simply don’t understand why people still perpetuate this myth that gay men only like pop music and dance music. If anything, I’ve always found that a gay audience is the most open minded, and I’ve heard some of the most diverse music under one roof in gay clubs and bars.
One of the reasons I love writing for Polari is that I can introduce people to things they might not normally listen to, from Ke$ha to Cradle Of Filth, and surely it’s a DJ’s job to do that too? If gay clubs and bars spend all of their time pandering to the stereotype and only feeding gay men and women ‘Just Dance’ and ‘Single Ladies’, then of course there would never be call for anything else. But I promise you, give them something different, and do it intelligently, and you too could start a movement. And we’d all thank you for it.
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A million thanks for this. Oh how I miss Ghetto! So yes, where the fuck do we go now? I know there’s definitely demand among my friends. Times have changed, the early 2000′s were all about electro, until it got hijacked by bad pop producers the world over. Maybe we could start a facebook group or something, drum up interest and organise one-off nights, until we get a nu-scene going again.
PS: disagree about Gaga, thought monster and born this way far superior to first album
There’s Stripped, which hasn’t been going very long: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stripped-Londons-Newest-Gay-Alternative-Club/117329755009003
I think there aren’t many nights because LGBT people are welcome at a ‘normal’ alternative night.
Up until Dec 2012 there was Bad Reputation in Bethnal Green. That was awesome… brought back so much of the early days of Red Eye and Miss Shapes… gutted that that has bow gone too. there are plenty of alternative gay nights happening though they just aren’t in Soho. I think Debbie is still going, Bloody Icecream (riot grrrl night) in Vauxhall. No Dicks at The Birds Nest plus more.. it is a shame they aren’t more central.
As far as where everyone went, i think that these things come around in cycles. When Ghetto opened there was a huge interest in alternative music, but gradually the bands became more mainstream and folk lost interest. The punters and the bands themselves evolved i guess. i’m sure it won’t be long before there is another cycle of Alternative music being alternative again.. there just needs to be something as interesting as Marilyn Manson to surface to tie it all up and make it irresistable.
‘I am sexually and romantically attracted to men, which identifies me as gay in today’s society. This doesn’t, however, mean that I want to wear a feather boa, cover myself in glitter and dance to Kylie on a regular basis’
AMEN!
Thanks for name checking Psycho:Drama here, we’ve worked long and hard to create a space for alternative music lovers within the gay scene – I think a certain amount of cynical marketing is at work here; so many members of the LGBT community are told who to like and how to dress and what to think, that when it comes to alternative lifestyles within an already marginalised group of people further divisions are created. Psycho:Drama as well as the lovely people involved in Bollox and Dirty Filthy Sexy in Nottingham offer a space where you can cut a rug to the latest electro sleaze from Peaches or pogo to Sham 69, you can dress head to toe in leather and studs or drag on to the beat of your own drum. The alternative gay clubs are most certainly not dead and we’re coming for you baby!!!
)
The dude with the mow hawk haircut at the top pictured is Matt. He started a website called Bentpunk which, to those that found it, brought together a load of alt gays and we used to frequent Red Eye at the Ghetto and other nights too as the hang out as most of us were into Alternative Music. (myself being a metalhead and yes, a big ole gay). It was a revelation to me after coming out of a relationship to somehow meet all these other people that had the same interests as me and finding that there was somewhere to go like Red Eye and having Bentpunk did mean I could meet other people with the same interests as me was just fantastic!! Sometime I just think it was luck! I look back at the time I spent at Red Eye with very fond memories and hence reading this post with a bit of sadness that there is nothing like that anymore for people to go to. There was a bit of magic being able to dance to great metal music with my fellow gays.
Times do move on and the people did too including myself. I still have many friends from that time I am still good friends with and I keep up with others with Facebook and stuff but it’s not the same so I get the frustration you feel when you say there isn’t somewhere to go in Soho. It would be nice to have something like that again.
However, the one point raised in the comments about gays being accepted in the Alt scene does ring quite true. I have many friends on the rock scene, mostly straight and I go to the Crobar and Intrepid Fox in Soho from time to time and other places in London like the Dev, Big Red, Fox and Firkin in Lewisham – clubs like Slimelight, Last Resort in Kings Cross, nights at the Electric Ballroom etc and I have rarely experienced anything bad cause of my sexuality. Noone really cares that much and I feel comfortable but it’s not the same to have somewhere you know everyone is gay too.
However, to have somewhere exclusively and advertised as a gay place to go would be awesome. In my ripe age of 36 though, I don’t go clubbing as much as I used to and the fact that I have met and hang out with many alt gays at gigs and clubs without there being somewhere exclusively gay but it would be nice. People have said to me I should start something as I have DJ’d before etc but I have never had the time nor the resources to take the chance. I do think about trying on occasion but at 36 and as above, I rarely do the scene anymore. I think that someone younger with a bit more drive and some scene popularity could make more of a success of it.
As mentioned, Soho is reluctant to put a night like that one again, especially on a weekend when they know they can make money from having a place just like all the others. It’s about finding someone with the resources that is willing to take the chance
Bentpunk did a lot to help with kickstarting the scene a bit I think and i am always thankful to Matt for that as he had the vision and the know how to start up a site and maintain it for others which I know he did at his expense. I have since looked for something similar online but haven’t really found much. Maybe I didn’t look hard enough or perhaps someone should start something again. I until recently did a podcast called The Gay Ass Rock Show which was more of a vanity project in the end and it never had any impact to go further than my friends just listening to it but I am sure that with the power of blogs and such these days, someone out there could recreate the same impact a site like Bentpunk did. It happened before, it can happen again.
Maybe an article like this can inspire someone to do something again and find someone in Soho to take a chance on something different for the gays. I know I would come down and check it out and with the right advertising, word of mouth etc, others would too.
You’re right though that if Manchester and other places can do it, London should be at the forefront and it’s a fucking shame it’s not.
Great article, sums up how I and a lot of other people are feeling.
However, if things are to change it will need like-minded individuals to come together to organise; no club promoter is going to take a risk after so many short-lived flops recently.
Perhaps it’s less about marketing it as an Alt Gay night, but focus on the polysexual crowd where no one gives a shit who are you or what you do as you’re all just there to enjoy the music and have fun.
Awesome- I totally agree. I’m so bored of the house beats in gay clubs- people doing the same dance to the same bet for 5 hours. I want variation – but more I want some more alternative music too. Maybe some Enter Shikari or at least Fall Out Boy?
I’m in two minds about this article! I think that on one hand, yes – there is a lack of gay indie nights now Ghetto and Trash Palace have gone, and Popstarz lost its momentum a long time ago. On the other, if you’re gay and like indie, you are always on the outside of the scene looking in. The sad truth is the majority of gay men like pop and house music and that’s what brings in the crowds. Another debate is whether they only like this music because it’s all they ever hear when they’re out! However, there is definitely a want for this kind of club night and so many have had a pop, but most have failed to replicate Simon Hobart’s success.
Running a club night takes more than a passion for music – there’s also the business acumen, promotion and marketing. And, let’s face it, not many of us are equipped with time or money to take a club night from nothing to the heady heights of stardom without the help from either someone who is already working on the scene and willing to endorse it or the punters coming through the doors. I think that the reason so many of these new indie nights have failed is because no one is going to them, which makes me think that as a community we’re really failing each other.
That’s very nice to be mentioned (and thanks for the kind words – been a long time since I’ve heard someone mention bentpunk online or off!).
Was put onto this article (on my facebook actually!) from a friend I used to work with at Ghetto that now lives in Berlin.
I really miss those golden years, growing up there was amazing. Sadly it did all gradually change when Simon left us. Even though everyone did their best to grow/change it to keep it going.
The closest thing I’ve felt to the old days of Ghetto that’s still going (and alot of the old faces go to) is Kaos at Stunners in way out east. Not really the same music (is more underground, international and noise focused) but definitely a similar vibe (if a bit pervier!).
I’ve ran a couple of nights since then (more along the industrial and techno side of things) one of which that did quite well at East Bloc before I closed it to live in Berlin for a while.
Been looking to bring it back somewhere central with an alternative ‘trash’ guilty pleasures second room. Everything from metal to indie or alt across the years. With more industrial/ebm/darkwave/electro on the main floor.
But it really is about finding a venue. Just haven’t managed it really. We actually had some people tell us they didn’t want ‘our kind’ in their establishment. Nope, not gays, but grungers and weirdos. Weird times. Soho’s a tough egg to crack. And east is well, great, but has it’s own thing going on.
http://cargocollective.com/infidel
Is the website. If anyone has any venue ideas pop me an email and I’ll happily investigate. Same if anyone would like to DJ the trash room (we already have a few set dj’s for the main room). Or want to be involved at all really.
I’d love to get it going again. And do something alt and fresh.
me@matthewbrindle.co.uk
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